New Projects

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Bryan
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 3:47 am

New Projects

Post by Bryan »

I saw a post on the Denis forums asking the admin if he wanted the project included in FB. Since there has been NO discussion or communication about that project or any other project on the "steering committee" forums then the steering committee is a pure farce.

Obviously FB is a LAF event controlled and administered by LAF somewhere on your team forum. Why do you pretend that other teams have any say in the challenge? This isn't the case and LAF should be honest. Just say that all decisions will be made by LAF and other teams can participate in FB if they wish but they will have no say as to which projects are included/added/dropped from FB.

If you decide to add Denis to the FB projects it would be very nice if (unlike SRBase and Universe) you started the team credits at zero on the day it is added. Since LAF is currently the top team on Denis it would certainly be an easy way for LAF to gain 25 FB points but it wouldn't be fair to other teams. Of course this is purely a LAF event so what others think really doesn't matter does it?
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Coleslaw
Posts: 48
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:02 am

Re: New Projects

Post by Coleslaw »

I took the posting as merely asking permission and not necessarily committing to adding them. DC-Vault and BOINCStats typically gets permission in advance too. I would say hold off on the allegations until things actually take place.

As far as 123numbers goes, I would prefer to see it mature a little more first. The admin has not been very responsive and work has been rough.
Bryan
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 3:47 am

Re: New Projects

Post by Bryan »

Coleslaw wrote: I would say hold off on the allegations until things actually take place.
No, I won't hold off on the allegation! The allegation is that the "steering committee" is a farce and that is true. I'm a member of that so called committee and I know there have been no discussions concerning the possibility of adding new projects or which projects should/could be added. Those decisions are made by someone/somewhere within LAF. I don't have a problem with that at all. However, I do have a problem with the façade that teams may have representatives to the steering committee to help make those decisions.

Personally I would prefer to have more projects. It gets very boring running the same projects over and over and over etc :)
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Coleslaw
Posts: 48
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:02 am

Re: New Projects

Post by Coleslaw »

The allegations you make imply that asking permission to include them is the same thing as adding them without discussion. There is no need to discuss adding a project before asking permission. In fact, it would be best to get the projects permission before wasting anyone's time discussing the matter. So regardless of this facade you speak of, you should really look at what is happening rather than what you fear might be happening. Nothing was added yet. Nothing was stated to have been discussed yet. Only permission was asked if they could be added. Perhaps since you are a member of this "group" you should bring up that discussion and see what happens from that. (If you haven't already)
Bryan
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 3:47 am

Re: New Projects

Post by Bryan »

Coleslaw - you are missing the whole point. It isn't a case of "has it been added" the issue is who made the decision to ask them if they wanted to be added. What other projects were asked? Are there other suggestions (from the steering committee members) of projects that should be contacted as well? If no discussion takes place on the steering committee forum then what is the purpose of inviting 2 members from each team to participate ... that is the farce.

Outside of 2 threads started by Phil1966 (LAF) and myself there has been NO discussion on the steering committee forum since Dec 2012. On those 2 threads that I mentioned only Phil and myself participated. He made the comment "Dead Place, I resign. Bye Bye". He later changed his mind and stayed around. I was specifically invited this year to join this committee and represent my team. I did that with the idea of trying to make FB more successful and not as someone trying to get an advantage for his team.

Personally I have no problem with this being a LAF event entirely. The decisions of what projects to add/delete can remain with them. The decision to add a project and count/or not the year's points prior to it being added can remain with them. But if this is the case then kill the "steering committee" and the personal invitations to join. It can be just like SG's Pentathlon, it is their event, and they define the rules. Not a problem.

BTW, your proposal of making FB run on a quarterly basis was 1st proposed on the steering committee forum in Dec 2012. The last post on the topic was Dec 31, 2012 and stated the "earliest it could implemented would be FB 2014."

My suggestion to you is since you want to help you should join the "steering committee" and represent your team. Here is the information :
Formula Boinc opens its doors to a worldwide participation in the definition of its rules.

Teams can send up to 2 representatives. The total number of representatives is fixed to 10 members.
L'Alliance Francophone has already selected its 2 representatives (Sebastien and Otax).
The 4 other more numerous Teams of the world (SETI.USA, Seti Germany, Team 2ch, Czech National Team) have already been contacted, and should send their representatives before end of November.

But, If seats are let free on November 30. representatives of other teams will be welcome.
If you feel to take some responsibility in Formula Boinc, you can add your name as "substitute" (means you will be nominated if some seats are left free) in following topic : viewtopic.php?f=5&t=27
I look forward to seeing you on the steering committee forums.
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Coleslaw
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Re: New Projects

Post by Coleslaw »

Bryan, I too was approached to join the steering committee. However, I am an admin at the DC-Vault already and am by far the most active member of my team in the DC world and keeping the team up to date. I do not care to be another admin to another challenge project at this time. I do understand what you are saying. However, to be clear. I could have just as easily went to those projects and asked permission in the public forums. I would not have needed to run it by the steering committee. It is nothing more than a documented approval by the project admin so that it shows there was a courtesy given. Many people hold challenges without gaining project approval first and then the challenge, for lack of a better word, just sucks. You will find that even the stats websites ask permission first many of times before tacking on the stats exports because this drives additional traffic to a project that may not be ready for it. This is nothing more than a sign of respect. Volunteers that have no authority will many of times go to those projects asking for this permission and then will let admins know of the decision. So, as you can see. In this specific case, there is no need to discuss the permission. And also in this case, the individual that (from what I understand) designed and maintains Formula-BOINC is the same one that asked for permission. Whether or not it was done in the past really doesn't matter. IMO it should have been done day 1. Perhaps they have taken someones suggestion or have learned from experience. I don't know. What I do know is that no changes have been made yet.
Bryan
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 3:47 am

Re: New Projects

Post by Bryan »

There is no disagreement with getting permission from an admin before adding a project or hosting a challenge. I worked in the industry for 32 years as an engineer so I do have some knowledge of server load, bandwidth requirements, HDD space etc. Approaching the Denis admin is NOT the problem.

The issue is that, by the RULES, there are 3 time slots during the year where projects may be added to FB. We are approaching the final time for 2015. There has been no discussion as to whether "other" projects should be considered or whether there is any input from any of the teams participating in FB. That is supposed to be the purpose of the steering committee.

As far as "wasting" time in discussion before permission is granted by an admin, SRBase and Universe were added with no discussion prior to or after getting that permission. Phil1966, a very good man BTW, made an announcement just before the projects went live.

You should have joined the steering committee when invited. It wouldn't have taken any of your time :)

I also understand that without Sebastian there would be no WuProp, FB, and the LAF team stats. I know that he has several other things that he manages. He doesn't have a lot of time ... in fact I don't know how he manages to do as much as he does.
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